EventNewsDXB

Zoe Jackson MBE: Living The Dream - From Flash Mobs To Royal Stages

• W4 Podcast Studio • Season 2 • Episode 12

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When a 16-year-old’s passion for performing arts snowballs into an award from the Queen, you know the story’s going to be good!

In the final episode of Season 2 of EventNewsDXB, Zoe Jackson MBE talks to us about how she took her teenage passion and turned it into a performing arts company and charity that inspired thousands of young people and led to numerous prestigious awards.

In 2020 she left the UK for Dubai and has since gone on to form of the region’s most respected entertainment production companies, Entertain X. She shares the lessons she's learned along the way, why saying no to procurement races protects creativity, how Expo’s legacy reshaped her business and why Saudi’s cultural boom is redefining what’s possible for live experiences.

Zoe also opens up about her event journey and how to manage through growth, evolving from hands-on creative to systems-builder, managing cash flow in slow-pay markets and finding balance when passion risks becoming burnout. 

If you're in the business of entertainment in the Middle East, this episode is for you.

Production Credits:

Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & W4 Podcast Studio

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SPEAKER_01:

You're listening to the Event News DXP podcast. Your behind-the-scenes look into the event industry in Dubai, the UAE, and the wider MENA region. I'm Ian Carlos, and each week I sit down with the people shaping one of the world's most dynamic event markets. Whether you're an event planner, supplier, agency lead, or part of an in-house team, I hope that this podcast gives you some practical takeaways, fresh perspectives, and a deeper understanding of how things really get done in one of the world's most fast-moving event markets. And for season two, I'm super pleased to let you know that Event News DXP is brought to you by Warehouse 4, probably Dubai's best independent event venue. And Minus 45DB, the team transforming noisy event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments. From full-size conference theatres to compact meeting pods, the Minus45DB builds modular spaces that are quiet, customizable, and completely turnkey. And they're sustainable too. Smart design but with zero waste. Check them out at the minus45db.com. Our guest this week is someone who embodies what happens when creativity meets a purpose and is proof that a young person with passion and determination can move mountains. Zoe Jackson launched Living the Dream when she was just 16 years old, not as a school project, but as a vision to empower young people through performing arts. Two decades later, she's built it into a company that's part school, part production house, using creativity as a force for social change. She's been recognized with an MBE, has worked with numerous international brands, influenced UK government youth policy, and inspired countless young creatives to find their voice. In 2020, Zoe handed the reins over to one of her most trusted employees and headed for Dubai, where she's now co-founder and CEO of Entertain X. We talk about what inspired the move, the balance between creativity and entrepreneurship, and what it truly means to live the dream. So let's get into it. Zoe, welcome to the podcast. Hello, thank you for having me. Now I usually start the podcast by asking how you got into events, but there's such a big elephant in the room at the moment, which are actually the three capital letters behind your name, MBE. So I'm going to start there. How does one end up with NBE behind their name?

SPEAKER_00:

I got my MBE it's nearly 10 years ago now. Time flies. Yeah, it really does. And it was for services to the entertainment industry in the UK and also for young entrepreneurs, as I was doing a lot to champion young people getting into business. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Well then let's start there then, because that seems to be the emphasis, as you just said, for the award. So tell me how you started.

SPEAKER_00:

I started my journey a long time ago. It wasn't that long. No. I set up my first company in the UK in 2006 when I was 16. Wow. So I'd always done performing arts. I loved to dance and sing and act, and I knew that that was my destiny. And I then got into an acting course in the UK and needed to raise the funds to go and do it. So I decided to put on a show. I called it Living the Dream because I wanted to go and live my dreams in the world. And uh the show was uh run by young people for young people, right? So it was an opportunity for young people to showcase their talents on a stage. And I raised the money that I needed to do the course. And I didn't realize honestly in that moment that that is what I would be doing for the rest of my life in terms of putting on a show that really does define who I am and what I love. But that was, yeah, where it all started.

SPEAKER_01:

So did it did the spark for that just emanate from the desire to raise funds for your course? I mean, where does that? I mean, most 16-year-olds don't go out at the you know on a day and go, well, today I'm gonna start a company. I mean, they might think, oh, I'll go and do a well, not a paper round, I'll show my age. They'll go and do something. They'll go work in in you know, in a as a barista in a coffee shop or something. But you kind of went, no, I'm just going large.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think I've always been very entrepreneurial even from a young age. I think I created, you know, a cushion making business and sold them at car boot sales, and I created Zoe's Cafe at home where I cooked the food my parents made in the fridge and sold it back to them when they were, you know, uh excited by the idea of me setting up this little company. I think I've always had that drive and that want to create success and to find opportunities. So I think it was always going to be a part of my journey to fall into running companies.

SPEAKER_01:

How difficult was it? And where did you actually start? I mean, it's a difficult process for anybody at any age, but particularly, you know, for somebody so young.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I started as most people do, I guess, when they start a company, is family and friends support. Right. The people around me who believed in me gave me some, you know, input, either advice or opportunity or some small amount of money. So I think it was that that really gave me the support that I needed to go to the next step and take my little dream and turn it into a reality.

SPEAKER_01:

So tell us, tell us more about what you actually created then.

SPEAKER_00:

So the company was called Living the Dream, and we had a school of performing arts for children. So we grew it to, I think at one point we had over 500 kids coming to classes every week, and we'd do summer camps, and that's the business that I was telling you before. I've passed on to one of my young teachers to take over. So she's still running that in the UK under a different brand. But I ran that company for a long time. I had such a passion for inspiring young people and developing young people. But the other side of my passion was creating professional level entertainment shows. So in the UK, we also had an entertainment company. We became very famous for doing flash mobs. Okay. We did one in it was a long time ago now, 2010, at St. Pancreas Station in London. Okay. And it went viral. We had over a billion views across social media. And that video was the turning point of my entire life. Everything changed. Companies were getting on the phone. Hey, we want your flash mob dancers to come and perform our event. Can you come and teach our company to do a flash mob? So for a long while, I was the flash mob queen and riding, riding the flash mob wave. And yeah, that's kind of the story of living the dream. You know, it was a really amazing and beautiful and challenging chapter in my life before I moved to the UAE.

SPEAKER_01:

I want to stick on that a little bit because there's a there's a couple of questions that immediately jump into my head. I mean, as a young person, you must have heard a lot of naysayers along the way. You must have had a lot of people sort of saying to me to you, uh, you know, what are you doing? Why don't you get a job? Yeah, real job. How do you overcome those? How do you come overcome the doubters?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I did, you know, the the classic story of the careers advisor at school who says, What do you want to do with your life, Zoe? I said, I want to run a business and I want to be a professional performer. And she said, Why don't you consider doing something safer and more sensible, like becoming a teacher or a nurse? And I was very much like, Screw you, watch me. So yeah, I mean, I think when I was at that age, I was very fearless, almost deludedly so, if that's even a word. Like I just didn't care. I just was taking leaps of faith that my older self now is more cautious about, honestly. So yeah, I had something that, you know, that kind of fearless spirit as a young person where you really do take risks and you block out a lot of the noise. I definitely had that.

SPEAKER_01:

There's a there's a a feeling of ins of invincibility that you have when you're younger, don't you, Emmanuel? Along with a sort of ignorance is bliss. But you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I I I've obviously I think we've all gone through that where you think you've got all the time in the world, nothing is impossible, there isn't anything I can't do. So certainly from my own experience, that's how it felt for me. Now, one of the things you just mentioned there as well was the turning point with that flash mob. So paint a picture for me. Where where were you at at that point in terms of the company? Was it just you with some friends helping, or did you actually have paid staff on board? And then what did that then become?

SPEAKER_00:

So I had, yeah, I had a small core team of about there's four of us. The flash mob happened when I literally graduated from the Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts, where I studied to do my performing arts degree.

SPEAKER_01:

So you were how old at this point? 21. 21, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and having that team enabled us to then start doing bigger performances. Like we did um some shows for the Royal Family, for Royal Commonwealth Day, we did stuff at Wembley Arena for 15,000 people. So having that success from the flash mobs enabled me to grow a mini team and that we were able to accelerate uh in terms of growth and opportunity with some bigger scale productions.

SPEAKER_01:

And these were full-time employees at the at the time, were they?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. How I mean, how do you navigate that? Because obviously, look, we can all, or many of us can come up with great ideas. You you obviously, but you know, behind that as well, there is actually the business of running a business, isn't there? There's managing cash flow, there's making sure everybody hit, you know, you hit salaries, etc. Yeah. Where did that knowledge come from in your journey?

SPEAKER_00:

From my mum for sure. Okay. Like she was running her own small business and she had a lot of understanding of those kinds of day-to-day things that needed to be done. So she was a huge support on many aspects. But if I look at the Zoe with the business acumen that I had then to what I have now, I mean, you know, then it was like, say yes, and we'll figure it out later. And then, you know, oh, okay, I've got to figure this out, this spreadsheet. And it was just really going with the flow. Um, now it's definitely more structured and strategized and planned.

SPEAKER_01:

So just to fast forward it a little bit, I think, in in your journey. So, at what point did you get the phone call for the MBE? Can you talk us through that?

SPEAKER_00:

The phone call for the MBE. Wow, yes. And you know what? It's funny because it was a phone call. Really? Because the letter never arrived. So they called me to say, we'd like to tell you that you've been awarded a member of the British Empire from Her Majesty the Queen. We just want to check you're able to attend because we didn't get your RSVP.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, Did you not think it was a prank call?

SPEAKER_00:

I did, I did, and she said, Okay, let me send you the information. Yeah, that would have been a great prank call. There's me doing my lap of honour celebration dance around the kitchen with somebody playing a prank. No. To be honest, it's actually a really challenging point in my life when I got that award. Okay. And I had a lot of people around me that I don't know, maybe they were threatened or jealous looking back now, uh, but tried to bring me down, tried to sabotage me and tell me I didn't deserve it. And, you know, why who are you to go and shout about your success? Who are you to shine brightly in this world? And I look back at that version of me, and my heart hurts because of course I deserved it. I worked my arse off and I gave everything to all of it, all of the projects, all of the shows, all of the young people. So yeah, it was a very much a kind of turning point for my personal development and how I view myself so that then I could create more success in the world. Because no more do those kinds of people like there's I don't align with that that kind of negative toxicity ever, ever again.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you think that then overall then that was probably m uh uh empowering? Do you think perhaps that, you know, because I mean as you said, there are there are some people who will try and pull you down. Yeah. And you could have left off. You d you you don't need to shout about that either, did you? You could have equally have gone, you know what, this actually brings as much negativity as it does positivity. I won't put those three letters behind my name.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think it was a yeah, it was a it was a turning point for me to, you know, let go of what people think and actually being proud of my achievements and not from a place of boasting or whatever, from a a place of humility of like, yeah, you know, I really did this. And it's interesting because a lot of people I meet in the Middle East have no idea what MBE even is, apart from people from the UK and some other areas of the world. So I have a lot of explaining each time. Some people think it's like an MBA or like a degree that you got, but yeah, yeah, I think it was a big defining life moment for me getting that MBE. In in at the time it felt like a good way and a bad way, but in hindsight, it was really the making of me today.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you see yourself more as a creative director or an entrepreneur? Or is that line just so blurred that you can't distinguish?

SPEAKER_00:

It's blurred, and you know what? I love both. Like a lot of the shows that we create, I'm usually the creative director, but what I'm learning now as the company is growing is I can't always wear both hats. Yeah, I need to be working on the business rather than in the business. I can oversee stuff. I've got some fantastic creative directors that I work with and bring into different shows. And now with the ambition that I have with the new company Entertain X in Dubai and in Saudi, like I have to be able to step in at the top level as a CEO, as the producer, and bring in all of those fantastic people underneath to bring the show to life. So whilst I I feel like I lean very hard into the creative side, the entrepreneurial side is what is really firing me up right now because I'm like, bring it on. I've got a new opportunity here to build this company and to make it something incredible and change a lot of people's lives, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Now, the social impact uh side of your work, it I mean, from what I've read and from what you've just told me just now, it feels like that. That's the heartbeat of everything that you do. But then how do you marry that with actually making that into a profitable business?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the the school that I had, and we also had a charity in the UK, that was a lot to do with, of course, the purpose and the social impact. I think now the impact has shifted because it is a profitable business that I run. The impact is in the shows that we create, the people that we inspire, the lives that we change by bringing them into the company to give them opportunities. So I think the the impact direction has shifted, but it's always something that is so special to me.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, fast forwarding a little bit, you you made the jump. You decided to, after all your success and achievements come 2020, you decided to leave that all all behind. Can you talk to me about that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I got to a point where I'd I'd passed on the school and I knew that I needed to expand. I needed to get out of the UK. The mindset in the UK is somewhat grey and dreary, like the weather. And I I saw an opportunity in Dubai. I knew I wanted to create uh and bring and launch my entertainment business in a new country. And Dubai was the one that was calling me. And I saw an advert on an on a flight, on an Emirates flight, for Expo, Expo 2020, and the advert was the greatest show in the world, and this beautiful, inspiring video. And I was like, that's where I'm moving to. And two weeks later, I packed my bags and went to Dubai. And I had a lot of people saying, You're crazy, you don't know anyone. How are you gonna run your business? How are you gonna even launch your business there? How are you gonna support yourself? How are you gonna and I said, I'm just taking a huge leap of faith, and I know this is where I need to be. And I was right.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, obviously, you you landed just as COVID was happening. I don't want to dwell too much on COVID because everybody in the event industry went through an absolutely horrific time during COVID, or I'd say 99% of us did anyway. Yeah. But let's just pick the story up after you've come out the other uh other side of COVID. I mean, how difficult then was that transition for you to get the ball rolling and get your your current company, which is Entertain X, up and running?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So after COVID, I was very lucky to get a couple of very big opportunities with Expo. Right. So we created a few big opening ceremonies for the we did the UK National Day, and Prince William attended in our Wassel Dome. Uh we were uh DP World's entertainment partner, so we did the big UAE National Day show. We did, I think, in the end, 500 shows across the six months. It was crazy. And anyone that was part of Expo knows it was crazy. And then after Expo, I then was getting a bit tired of a lot of the price wars that were happening in the UAE with cheap entertainment companies undercutting good quality. And I was like, I don't want to play this game for right now. I need to shift. And the shift was Saudi because I knew that there was a lot of opportunity there. The growth is unprecedented at the moment with the investment into the region, with different venues, entertainment concepts, events, everything. So I aligned in Saudi with my now business partner, who's a Saudi guy. We started partnering together to do a lot of projects in Alula, which is such a magical place in the world. It's so beautiful. So we created a few different shows there. We had a theatre show, a projection mapping show, and a concert. And we then decided to partner up and set up um the new entertainment company, Entertain X, to have the core focus of Saudi. We've still got Dubai, of course, because there's a lot of amazing clients that I work with and relationships that I've built. But Saudi is the place to be right now.

SPEAKER_01:

You mentioned an interesting point there about uh about the the price competition in price. We've uh obviously we I've had quite a few people on the on the podcast so far, and one of the current threads at the moment, certainly in the last sort of six months, has been the sort of re-emergence of procurement-driven briefs. And it just seems like such a race to the bottom. I mean it's a very good thing. It's very difficult sometimes, isn't it? At the end of the day, you know, you've got we've all got rent to pay. Yeah. So it's it's a brave move, you could say, to say, I'm not gonna play that game.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you know what? Look, there are some clients that we reduce our rates for, and there's always a it's it's really on a case-by-case basis. Some companies you know will come in and squeeze you dry to the point where you're like, I can't even do this project because what's the point? Yeah, some projects you're actually willing to do at little to no profit because you want the opportunity or you want the exposure or you want to align with that client for the hope of future projects. So I think with me and my team now, we just assess it on a case-by-case basis, and we are very flexible. Like uh, you know, there's some projects where we do go in at a high end because we know that that's what the audience needs, and we know that there's an appetite for the most elite performers, international celebrities, and the highest end staff members, but there's other projects where it doesn't need that level, and then the ones that are down here, which is your cheap and cheerful staff, we just don't get involved in.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

How do you go about putting together your your shows then? When you let's just assume that you've you've won the brief. Do you have to pitch the show beforehand, an idea for it? And if so, where does that idea come from?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So a lot of the briefs that we get sent are looking for a creative concept. So let's say it's for an opening ceremony, for example. They'd give us an initial brief and it comes from the event company who would be our client, and then the end company is the government, the corporate, the whoever. Then we work on the overall creative storyboard. So we can take the scene by scene show, and now through the power of Chat GBT and AI, we can visualize it. Like I could take the ideas I have in my head when there's no time to pay a 3D designer or a sketch artist, smash it out on ChatGBT, and then we've got a beautiful show. So, and usually it comes from me. I do a lot of the creative proposals and creative work. But if I'm too busy, I lean on some of the other creatives in the team.

SPEAKER_01:

How much does budget play a part in that? I mean, I'll go back again on myself a little bit here, but then how much does budget play a part in that? Because, you know, and the second part of that question is how do you safeguard the IP on those ideas?

SPEAKER_00:

You can't, you can't. And that's the really heart-wrenching part of the game that we are playing in events and entertainment in the not just the Middle East but the world. I think I've tried so many times to have conversations with my lawyer about how can I protect this? Because I've seen some of our ideas that have been executed by another company, and really when it comes down to it, you can't unless you officially make it an uh trademarked IP. I think you just gotta go with the fact that you know, a lot some ideas are new, some ideas are recycled, some people change them and shift them, and and some people steal them and some people don't.

SPEAKER_01:

You just how does that experience compare, for example, with uh the UK? Similar experience? Are you able to protect your IP in the UK, perhaps more effectively than you can here?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, at the time in the UK, I never really was worrying about that because a lot of the clients that we were lucky to work with came to us directly. Right. Because we had so much exposure and so much prestige with the awards and the big viral videos. Clients would come to us and say, we want to work with you, and that was it. It's only really been in the Middle East that I've been a part of this pitching rat race.

SPEAKER_01:

RFBs.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, someone sent me a video the other day, and it was like, now my life is all about decks. Like everything I do is about a deck, as in a proposal, a deck. And yeah, it's uh I think all we can do really is put our best efforts into making the idea as creative and unique as possible, but at the same time, build a relationship with the clients so that they trust us and want to work with us, so that one why would they want to go anywhere else?

SPEAKER_01:

Now I'm gonna change tax slightly. You're obviously female. We work in a very male or oriented or dominated industry.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

What's been your experience, both I guess, you know, in your experience in the UK and also here in the Middle East?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you know, it's funny. The UK uh it was never an issue for me. You know, it was actually celebrated that I was this young female entrepreneur. It was it was celebrated for sure. I think in the Middle East, it's funny because a lot of people back in the UK still have this mentality of oh, you can't, you have to cover everything, and you you know, you have to be act a certain way and do this, and it's really going to be so difficult for you. And it's not been that way at all. Like I went into it thinking there might be some challenges and some barriers, but actually I don't really think there has been.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's good to hear. And actually, you're not the first person to say that. We've had a few female event professionals on the podcast, and and it I'm happy to say, yeah, similar sort of experience. And I think a lot of it is just, isn't it? It's just preconceptions, you know, many of them very old and you know, and we know how uh this region has changed.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I think the thing as well is there's this is why I'm really glad that my business partner is a guy, because we now know when we need to step into a room and I'm the one leading the conversation, and we know when to step into a room and he's the one leading the conversation based on who's there, where they're from, what the you know, what the conversation is about. And I think it's just being strategic and playing that to our advantage. But it's never been, yeah, a concern really, or a barrier in any way.

SPEAKER_01:

Now you mentioned earlier, obviously, you you've you've come a long way since you you first started. And in all that time, obviously you've been leading teams the whole time. So on a personal level, how has your leadership style changed over the years? You know, how have you grown both personally and professionally in terms of that leadership role?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Well, I actually have a leadership coach. Oh. And I've done a lot of work on my own personal development, business development, but now leadership development. Because for me to grow the company in the scale that I want to grow it to, I have to step into the best version of me to be able to lead, inspire, and support a team. And leadership style, when I was younger, I've always been a natural-born leader. You know, I'm the the I've got a loud voice, I like to direct, I'm, you know, I'm in show business, let's go. But it was, it was never really, you know, uh from a kind of grounded, different style of leadership, which I really believe I have now. Like I before was a very excitable, energetic person, which I still am, but the leadership here is about how can I inspire and support a team of people to align with the goals and the vision of the company and to crack on, leave people to do what they do best and you know, give them that trust and that opportunity to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

What's the toughest lesson you've learned so far?

SPEAKER_00:

The toughest lesson always have money in the bank.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, honestly, I think that's it. I think that's it. I mean, you heard about some of the moments I I had as challenges with my self-esteem and my self-perception and everything. But when it comes down to business, if you've got cash flow behind you, especially in the Middle East, where we know people pay slowly and things are delayed, I think that is really the strongest position that you can be in. So I think that's the biggest thing I've learned in the last four or five years.

SPEAKER_01:

What about motivation? How do you I mean, how do you keep both yourself motivated and how how do you then keep your team motivated?

SPEAKER_00:

So if I don't do the work, and when I say do the work, I mean get up in the morning, do my morning routine, exercise, clear my head, get out in the sun, do all of the stuff that I need to do that is gonna set me up in the best possible space to be able to not just win the day but win the week. I think that's it. If I if I don't do the work, then I'm gonna show up sometimes as a stressed or maybe slightly anxious version of me, which doesn't help when my team, who in the events and entertainment industry, a lot of the time get into a very intense project where everything's last minute, everything's crazy, and I have been able to start trying to catch myself to show up in the most calm, grounded way to help support the team through some of these mad, crazy projects.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, just changing tax ever so slightly. Burnout is a big question in our industry at the moment, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Been there, done that. Yeah. Got the t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01:

So how do you go about managing burnout? You know, when when sort of passion and purpose are so tightly in interwoven, aren't they? I mean, you know, we we're all of us, I think, are guilty of just enjoying what we do so much that we just never switch off.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh and sometimes we end up doing ourselves a disservice, don't we? Yes. How do you manage that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, I think it's from having been through that process again and again and again. Do we learn? No, I think I have now. Right. But in those moments before, you you know you can feel yourself starting to get into burnout. You'll run down, you're getting sick, you're working all hours of the day. But sometimes when you're in the crunch of it, you just have to keep going. So I think what I've learned now is how can I put structures in pa in place, the right people in place, so that I am not burning myself into the ground. Because to be able to operate in this industry that we're in and to stay healthy is really actually really a hard thing to do. So it's focusing on health and well-being at the forefront, but also protecting time, managing boundaries, and structuring a project so that you know everybody's got the best possible chance of coming out the other side and still being in a in a half decent space.

SPEAKER_01:

And you mentioned you've got a a leadership coach. So how do you stay creatively inspired then? Do you I mean, do you have routines or do you have you know something or some One that you turn to for that as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, creatively inspired for me is through film, it's through listening to music, it's through inspirational stuff that I find online, it's going to a concert theatre, it's anything that is going to inspire me. And do you know what it's hard because I'm, and I I guess a lot of people have this that in the industry we're in, it's hard to fully enjoy a show without a critical eye. I uh I know when I've been to see something that is fully inspired me is when I'm in the moment, I'm present, and I'm not going, ooh, what happened with that bit over there? And why is that? Oh, that was a mistake. Anyone else see that?

SPEAKER_01:

Why have they painted that bit purple?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So I need to make sure I'm I'm yeah, continuing to watch things and read things and listen to things that are gonna keep inspiring me because that is the moment where your world changes, you know, when you're in that beautiful moment of flow and inspiration, opportunities just come, they appear.

SPEAKER_01:

What about success? How has success changed your relationship with ambition? Do you still chase the same goals now, do you think, that you did when you were 16?

SPEAKER_00:

No, they've definitely shifted. I think, in terms of the business model for sure, but the level of ambition of I want to create, you know, the young version of me, I want to create this huge empire, I want to do all of these things, that drive is still very much there. But I think it's shifted into a clearer idea of what success could look like still with a ridiculously successful company, but something that isn't going to be, you know, global, is just Middle East focused. And I don't think I ever thought I'd be doing that from the young version of me to where I am now. But success to me is shifted in terms of what it means, like what it really means. And I think success is not just zeros in the bank, it's not about that. If you if you if you're secure and you don't have scarcity and fear of paycheck to paycheck or when's the next project coming, you know, I've done all of that. That's hard. That is a very difficult place to be in. But when you have that stability and you're able to fly and you're able to, success is more about playing the game of business and winning on a daily basis and having a beautiful relationship with your friends and family and doing the things that you love. It's not how many more zeros can I add to the bank.

SPEAKER_01:

So when you look back on your career so far, what are the standout moments for you? I mean, we we've obviously just been talking about success. And you've said, you know, it isn't just numbers, it's not just zeros in the bank, you know, it's more of a uh looking at it in the as a holistic thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

But there must have been some moments where you just go, God, I'm proud of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Well, the one most recently was winning the Middle East Event Awards for the best arts and culture event. And that was for a show that we created in Alula called Hegra After Dark, which was a theatre show that ran for four months. So that was a really proud moment, you know, to be recognized against so many incredible other events and shows in that category. We were not expecting it. So that was epic. That was a great moment, and also made me realize I'd made exactly the right decision in terms of focusing a lot of the efforts in the business into Saudi. So that one for sure. Expo 2020 was a big highlight, especially the UK National Day show with Prince William. That was yeah, one of the standout moments for sure. And then from my UK era, the flash mob, because it'll just go down in history. I mean, it's still jumping around the internet now. It's wild. And the MBE, you said it.

SPEAKER_01:

So before we wrap up, I'm gonna ask you. Um, I'm sure you must be a music fan.

SPEAKER_00:

I am.

SPEAKER_01:

As I am, and we all yeah, I think we all turn to music for different things in our life, usually me to relax and and de-stress. What's on your playlist?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, listen, my playlist is so random. Like I grew up listening to 60s American music, like 80s. What's on my playlist? It depends on the mood. Like, I love a good Ellen John soundtrack. Okay, that makes me very happy. Okay. Love to work with him one day. You know, a lot of DJs, a lot of house music. I love it's so random. Like, I have such an eclectic taste. Yeah, it just depends on the day. What mood are we in? My fiance is such a big music fan. Like, we it the playlist that we have of our favorite tracks goes on and on and on and on and on. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Brilliant. And finally, what's next for you? I mean, I know you've got the obviously the Saudi is very much at the forefront of your of your vision at the moment. Yes. What else is what if you have to look 12 months ahead, what's ahead for you?

SPEAKER_00:

What's next is for Entertain X is establishing our offices in Dubai and Saudi, is doing some very large-scale projects in Saudi, Dubai, and Qatar, which is a totally new market for me. I'm very excited about it as well. It was never part of the plan, but sometimes you just have to be open to whatever comes. So, yeah, I think it's smashing life for the next year, bringing on so many new people into the team as full-time staff, as freelancers. I met so many amazing freelancers recently. The talent out there is insane. So, interviewing, recruiting, training, smashing out proposals and RFPs left, right, and center, and then creating some beautiful shows. That's the goal.

SPEAKER_01:

Brilliant. Zoe, thanks for joining me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Event News DXP is brought to you by Warehouse 4, probably Dubai's best independent event venue. And minus 45DB, the team transforming noisy event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments. The podcast was presented by myself, Ian Carlos. The studio engineer and editor was Roy Damonte. The executive producer was myself and Joe Morrison, and this podcast was produced by W4 Podcast Studio, Dubai. And if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. We'll see you next time.