EventNewsDXB
EventNewsDXB is your go-to weekly podcast for the latest news, trends and insights from the event industry in Dubai, the UAE and the broader MENA region. Each episode delivers a mixture of expert interviews, industry updates and success stories from the people shaping the region’s vibrant events landscape.
I host it - I'm Ian Carless and I've worked in both the event and television production industry for over 25 years.
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It takes time and effort to put the podcast together, but I hope it's worth something to you. If it is, please consider supporting us for as little as US$250 per month to keep the podcasts coming. Contact us for details.
EventNewsDXB
Adam Griffiths: Relationships, Trust & Building A People-First Agency
When Adam Griffiths packed a bag and followed his brother to Dubai he didn’t plan on founding an event agency. However, fatherhood and a hard look at what “trust” means in this market, pushed him to launch Enigma, built on a simple promise: do what you say you’ll do.
In this week’s episode of EventNewsDXB, Adam draws a clear line between live events and experiential and why the win isn’t footfall, it’s connection. He shares how his team designs for engagement and dwell, not just more screens and why success lives in the conversation that happens after. We also dig into a standout case from Jeddah’s Red Sea Film Festival with Netflix - a multi-zone fan experience adapted thoughtfully for local culture.
Adam also talks candidly about building fast without losing the plot: hiring for attitude, keeping the team intentionally lean, qualifying briefs and saying no to race-to-the-bottom procurement.
It’s an honest, practical playbook for event pros in the region: how to protect creativity on tight budgets, use data with purpose and build the kind of trust you can look for in a client.
EventNewsDXB is supported by Warehouse Four and -45dB
Production Credits:
Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & W4 Podcast Studio
Support us!
It takes time and effort to put the EventNewsDXB podcast together and we hope it's worth something to you. If it is, please consider sponsoring the podcast to enable us to keep them coming. Contact us for details.
You're listening to the Event News DXB podcast your behind-the-scenes look at the event industry in Dubai, the UAE and the wider MENA region. I'm Ian Carlos and each week I sit down with the people shaping one of the world's most dynamic event markets, whether you're an event planner, supplier, agency lead or part of an in-house team. I hope that this podcast gives you some practical takeaways, some fresh perspectives and a deeper understanding of how things really get done in one of the world's most fast-moving event markets. And for season two, I'm super pleased to let you know that Event News DXB is brought to you by Warehouse 4, probably Dubai's best independent event venue. Minus 45 dB, the team transforming noisy event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments, from full-size conference theatres to compact meeting pods. Minus 45 dB builds modular spaces that are quiet, customisable and completely turnkey, and they're sustainable too. Smart design with zero waste Check them out at minus45dbcom. A waste Check them out at minus45dbcom.
Speaker 1:When Adam Griffiths packed a bag, followed his brother to Dubai and stumbled from sports into events, he didn't plan on founding an event agency.
Speaker 1:However, fatherhood and a hard look at what trust means in this market pushed him to launch Enigma, built on a single promise do exactly what you say you'll do. In this week's episode of Event News DXB, adam draws a clear line between live events and experiential why the win isn't footfall, it's connection. He also shares how his team designs for engagement and dwell time, not just more screens, and why success lives in the conversation that happens after. We also dig into a standout case from Jeddah's Red Sea Film Festival with Netflix a multi-zone fan experience carefully adapted for local culture. Adam also talks candidly about building his business at a breakneck speed, hiring for attitude, keeping teams intentionally lean and saying no to briefs that have all the hallmarks of the race-to-the-bottom culture that prevails all too often with procurement-driven briefs. It's an honest and practical playbook for event pros in the region, so let's get into it. You're listening to the Event News DXV podcast, adam. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Good to be here, I'm going to do what we always do with every guest start right at the beginning and say how did you get into events and how did you end up in Dubai?
Speaker 2:Briefly, good question yeah, so for me I've been in Dubai maybe 12, 13 years, obviously from the UK. Yeah, was living in Hertfordshire with my brother, did a ski season in near Chateau France Swiss border, came back, played a summer of cricket and then my brother got an opportunity to work at the Elks Club, Okay, and I was like where's the Elks Club? And he was like in Dubai.
Speaker 2:Getting the map out, yeah, yeah, I was like where's Dubai? Let's have a look. Took me about 20 minutes, kind of like, well, I've got no responsibilities here, I've got no ties here, let's give it a go, I'll come with you. And he moved out in the January. I moved out in the February. I'd got an interview with Sports City for when I landed, got it, thankfully, and then that was it. And then that was it. We were away. In terms of events, my background was largely into sports management et cetera, but started doing some of the events at Sport City the leagues, the tournaments and stuff and kind of just fell into it organically and then got a bit of a buzz for it, enjoyed it. It's fair to say it's probably not definitely for everyone.
Speaker 1:It's intense at times, yeah and that's how I first got into it, I suppose. Yeah, now you mentioned just before we started the podcast, it's been a tumultuous couple of years with starting Enigma, so let's just dig right in at the start there. If I can take you back to those early days, yeah, yeah, what motivated you to start Enigma and what gap in the market did you see that you thought you could fill?
Speaker 2:I think the honest answer there is. I had my first son, my first child sorry, in 2019. And then I thought okay, you know shit, I've got to sort myself out. Now, like I've got, I can barely look after myself.
Speaker 1:I've got responsibilities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got to look after this human. So, and then we went straight into COVID. You know, obviously the event industry was not a good place to be during that time. No, tell me about it. Ultimately, my family had to go home and I moved into a you know shoebox apartment in town square and was kind of thinking, okay, I've basically I've got to make this work somehow, otherwise I'm going back to england and I desperately didn't want to do that.
Speaker 2:Came out firing from that where I was and then had built up a good kind of profile of clients and felt like I was always kind of wanting something for myself and kind of thought do you know what? Let's just let's give it a go. It's maybe a bit old school, but I felt like there was a gap in the market for genuine, honest work. I feel like the region here is super saturated in terms of agencies, but someone who can, you can look in the eye, in the white of their eyes, and trust that they're going to do what they say. Ultimately, that was kind of where we started. We were very blessed to have New Balance came with us from the start. We had some stuff from Alpha Tame come from the start and then it just kind of snowballed from there really. But I thought looking back oh, it's going to be, this will be great owning a business and you know I'll be able to do what I want and have time, and definitely none of that true.
Speaker 1:Now there's a difference, isn't there, between live events and experiential, and you've very much gone down the experiential route. Obviously, this podcast is for event professionals and the like, but for the layman, or perhaps somebody who's new to the to the event industry or experiential industry, what's the difference between the two?
Speaker 2:so for me, live- events would be where you would have a, you know, like a, a concert or uh, anything with a kind of larger scale audience where someone is delivering something of scale. For me, experiential is is all about brands connecting with consumers. So you know, that can be done in various different ways, but for me it's making sure that the consumers have an experience, they take away some memories, you know, and they feel more connected, you know, ultimately to the brand. I think would be kind of how you know, I would explain it in a nutshell yeah, it's a lot more touchy feely, isn't?
Speaker 1:it, I think the whole experiential side. You know we'll go on later to talk about how you actually measure that, because obviously with events it's a little bit more linear, isn't it? You can measure against number of attendees how many tickets you sold, et cetera, et cetera. But with experiential it's a little bit more subtle, isn't?
Speaker 1:it but we'll come onto that Now. You mentioned and I just want to sort of spend a little bit of time on this on starting the business, because obviously you're only two years in, but you've come a long way in those two years. You've gone from yourself, obviously, and now you're up to what? 25 employees. So how have you been able to manage that growth so quickly? Good question.
Speaker 2:I would ask myself that every day. To be honest, no, listen, I think for us, when we've gone through processes of adding staff and key roles, we've interviewed I don't even know how many people, 100 people, hundreds of people, it feels like, Because for me it was about getting skill sets important, but the right person is the most important, because then that person can then be molded or evolve into something. But if they've got the right attitude, then that for me is a key.
Speaker 2:I guess recruitment would be one of the main focuses for me in terms of getting there creating an environment where people and particularly I believe this strongly in creative, creating an environment where people are confident to come up with crazy stuff. Environment where people are confident to come up with crazy stuff, confident to make mistakes and empowered to just kind of get on with their, you know, day to day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. I mean, I think HR is a super important aspect, isn't it? And, as you said, I think you can. You can teach people the hard skills you know.
Speaker 2:You can teach them how to press buttons, how to fill in forms and the rest of it, but those soft skills, the people skills and the you know, being being intuitive, being inquisitive, they're much harder to find. Look, I don't think I mean probably more so nowadays people would pick events as a career. A lot of people, if we're honest, accidentally end up in events and it's it's it's attitude, it's hard work and it's grit that ultimately matters, because you know, it is not easy in any capacity. But, yeah, no, I would agree, we have a bit of a joke actually, we in our within enigma, that we, we don't necessarily have direct hr, if you will. Yeah, you kind of have a bit of a joke that if you need hr, leave, which is a joke, and obviously we don't mean it. But in the context of come and speak to me about it, we'll either figure it out or we won't. It's an interesting approach actually, because and speak to me about it we'll either figure it out or we won't.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting approach, actually, because you talk to a lot of business owners and one of the first things that will say as they grow their team is the inordinate amount of time that they spend on hr. Yeah, and those little things like I don't know, my cat died, I need time off, or I've got a cold, or I need to do this and that. So you're doing that yourself. Still, no, you no, we.
Speaker 2:so we've got a software that works and we've got an admin team, but ultimately, like you know, for me the size of the business is so important to not go bigger than it is now right, because at the minute I'm in the culture, I can help control it or not control it, influence it, and and I can know the staff and know maybe what makes them tick and know if their cat died or or anything you know, and then it's for me it's much more of a human approach. Like you know, if you need a bit of time off, of course we'll all rally around to give you a bit of time off. But it's funny because my sister works in England still and I talk to her about things and she's like you can never come home. She's like the HR, the policies, she works for the council. So it's, you know, all of these Very structured very regimented.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's red tape.
Speaker 2:It feels like the opposite of what we're trying to build, which is quite fluid and around the people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an interesting approach as a business owner, because if you say that you're going to stay at a certain level, certainly in terms of manpower, I mean obviously that has a knock-on effect in the amount of business that you're able to generate. Yep, you know, and I guess you know, some entrepreneurs would say, oh, why limit yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's the thought process behind that?
Speaker 1:Because I mean, you know, you come across this a lot in life, don't you? Or I think I do. Certainly, the older I get, is you know, I certainly ask myself the question of when. Is enough enough? Yeah, yes, is enough enough? Yeah, yes. I think some of us would what we think we'd like to earn millions and millions and sail off into the distance.
Speaker 2:But actually what we're, what would keep us happy, is often a lot less yeah, I think so, and I think what I've learned in the last two but also five years of just sort of really when I started thinking about it is more what not to do. You know, like scaling quickly okay is super challenging, but if you scale too fast and you don't have the infrastructure to support it, it will all fall down. Also, I feel that there's no need to be greedy. I always say I'm not greedy. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like we're blessed to have the clients we have.
Speaker 2:Right, we're looking at a lot of Q4 and saying, okay, done, we can't take any more on, it's important to just deliver now. And that goes back to relationships and trust with clients. And then I always go back to kind of, how hard did I work to get this client? So now I need to keep this client, retain this client. That's one part of it.
Speaker 2:The second part of it is I've got a two-year-old little girl and a six-year-old boy and I spend a huge amount of time working and and you know it being in and out of saudi and in and out of qatar, and also I want to be able to, uh, have some balance in my life. And then the last point I would say, probably on this number of 25 that I have kind of fascinated around in my head is I think that with the tech that you've got now and the world, the way the world's connected, how ai is coming and changing everything, you can compete with anyone. Yeah, you know, like we're working with some incredible brands and we're a you know, I would say we're quite a young team, fresh team, but we, we can compete and it works. So I just don't think we need to change it too much. You know Well, you're not alone.
Speaker 1:I had David Balfour on from Lightblue recently and he went through a similar process with Lightblue. He went from, I think he said, having 50-plus clients on board and then scaled it back to 25. And there's lots of learnings that you can take away from that, obviously just being able to serve the service, the clients that you have better. Yeah, and, as you rightly point out, retain the clients.
Speaker 2:I mean, we all know it costs a lot more to go out there and get a new client than it does to keep your existing client no for sure, and especially in the market now, when it's like a lot of it's going more and more into like procurement briefs and it becomes a big challenge because you don't necessarily or you're not allowed to have direct comms with the marketing or whoever's their brand, sales, etc.
Speaker 2:So you end up thinking, okay, I'm dealing with procurement, this is just going to become, you know, 10, go to the bottom, race to the bottom in terms of numbers and then you just you don't want to be a part of that. Yeah, much better to not retain, because the retainer model isn't, doesn't really exist in in events, but work with them, because you then you know like, you know we, we know what new balance's calendar is, we know what netflix are doing, like, because they have relationships with them and then you don't have to go through that pitch process every single time, which is, you, you know, burns creative. If you don't win it there's, you know, negative people will get a bit down about it and stuff. So, yeah, for me, yeah, very important that for sure.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, isn't it? Because, I think you know, in the course of doing these podcasts, what I've realized is that the industry seems to be quite cyclical in terms of its attitude towards how to win business and the whole relationship thing, and what I sort of gleaned over the last three to six months is that we seem to be in a period now where we're slipping back towards procurement and the lowest common denominator, rather than building proper relationships with clients where you're in as a partner and not just as a provider. Yeah, from your experience, how has that brand experience of the live event industry changed in the sort of couple of years the last, certainly, that your last two years? Has there been a change and, if so, where's that been, other than obviously?
Speaker 2:what we've just talked about. No, I think it. I think it's changed. I think, if I look at the landscape six months ago in regards ai, and even three months ago, how quickly this is evolving and changing, whether it's the pitch process or the rfb process, or whether it's being able to turn things around quicker for live, that is a huge change in it. But then we are, I feel, anyway we are now working towards a bit of a shift where people are questioning what is real good number of our brands that we work, with the minute of saying, look, we don't want to work in it. If this is ai, we don't want it, which is an interesting perspective. But because I feel like they want to go back to, you know, protecting the human nature of an event and making sure that you, you, you know you have a physical element to it where you, you know you can, like we said earlier, look, feel, touch it. So I feel like, yeah, that would, for me, would be one of the biggest changes. I would say yeah.
Speaker 1:So how do you manage the new business then? I mean, obviously you've got the relationships already with the, with your existing clients. Do you find yourself having to knock on doors and be very speculative and go out and reach to people who you think you know might speak the same kind of language as you, or do you rely more on, you know, people coming to you with briefs For me?
Speaker 2:it's all about relationships. This market is so driven on that and I don't think we've done a cold piece of sales since we opened. To be honest, it's always been relationships, referrals, delivering. I'm a big advocate for sharing your story, sharing what you do, celebrating your wins. You know whether that's on socials or on your website or you know in your friends' networks Then that the consequence of that has been a growth in terms of it, and that's one thing I love about Dubai, by the way, is people celebrate each other's wins here, I feel much more, and you know LinkedIn as a platform here versus the UK is completely night and day, I feel.
Speaker 2:Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, I mean in terms of activity, the way that people will post regularly. I feel, the way that I feel the market here will celebrate your wins For me. I love to see other agencies doing cool stuff. For me, it's inspiring, it's super interesting. I also like to see you know, like the growth of any entertainment agencies or other suppliers. I feel you know we should all just and I feel like that is what happens we should all kind of celebrate it and grow together, because the market is, it's, white-holed at the minute.
Speaker 1:Now you've produced some pretty high profile experiential activities so far. What's been your favourite so far, what stands out for you and what really sort of embodies the DNA of Enigma? Good chance for you to give a case study, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean the immediate one that jumps to my head is when we created a brand moment for Netflix in Jeddah around Red Sea Film Festival last year. Yeah, so many challenges with it in terms of trying to find a venue that worked, dealing with like teams, cross-functional between various different agencies, but for me, that would be the standout one. That was three day fan experience. It got extended to another weekend. We had 14 kind of zones within it. Some local titles were celebrated. We had a bit on Wednesday. We had Stranger Things Love, stranger things, love is blind spl, which was a big one for me and it was.
Speaker 2:We had a bridgerton cafe and seeing how netflix, or how we worked with netflix on the creative to fuse that into saudi culture, was really, really cool. They gave us a good amount of freedom. Lots of challenges because you're dealing with Netflix as a brand, then you're dealing with, you know, the Bridgerton brand, stranger Things brand, the Wednesday brand. So lots of intricacies in terms of how we would bring it together, get access to content, etc. But for me that's uh, that's definitely one that kind of I felt really put us on the map, I would say, in terms of experiential and experiences and, uh, everything around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think, going back to the challenges that we faced in saudi, I think we went through nine venues we went through 24 sets of renders or something, and it was just, you know, one of those ones where you're just thinking, oh my god, this is ever going to happen. Yeah, but we, but we got it across the line and it was, uh, something that we were all super proud of, yeah, so now, obviously the visual element of experiential is one part of it, isn't it?
Speaker 1:but how do you connect emotionally with audiences? What, what do you infuse into your proposals for clients that really tick that emotional box? Yeah because, at the end of the day, isn't it? That's what? That's what people are coming for and that's what, when they go away, they will talk. They will talk about the most they won't necessarily. Oh yes, sure, they'll have some nice shots for Instagram, but it's that emotional connection, isn't it that, really? I think, anyway, when it comes to experiential makes, or breaks.
Speaker 2:No, I would agree. We always sit in a room when we're unpacking a brief and we kind of say, okay, who's the target audience here? Like, out of the 10 people or whatever that work on this, who's the target audience? Okay, come up with an idea, do you engage with it and then, very quickly, if it's no, move on, go to the next one.
Speaker 2:I think the other important thing is making sure that you do understand that consumer directly from end to end, so you know, whether it's a shoe launch or a car launch, who is going to be buying this car. Like, ultimately, everyone's trying to sell something is how I feel right, so it's making that process feel super organic and a nice experience for them. But I feel that for me, the most important there is, like the detail of the consumer and if you understand it, I think for us, our decks are super strong at the minute, particularly, we are trying to find ways to animate things, keep everything moving. I feel like more and more attention spans are shorter and shorter. A hundred slide deck is a disaster for me.
Speaker 2:I think the best pitch is 15 minutes and you're just really punchy to the point. To be honest, I also think if I was to say to the point, to be honest, I also think if I always say to the guys, before we pitch, close down the laptop. You've got like 45 seconds, explain it. And at the start, try and explain that in 45 seconds because and then you also know if you've got them or not. Yeah, and then you know. I guess the other thing which I strongly feel about when we're putting things in front of clients is like teams calls are great, zoom calls, whatever they are great and they serve a good purpose. But being in the room with the client is so much better because you know, you pick up on body language, you know humor, terrible jokes, whatever. You can thread it all in and and build that rapport with them. Yeah, I think that's another big difference for me when it comes to putting things in front of clients and making a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just shifting tack ever so slightly. When you decided to set up Enigma, what was the most significant risk that you feel you took at that time? Because, obviously you know, working for yourself and running your own business isn't for everybody, is it? Yeah, there are a lot of people who just prefer the safety of a, of a salaried job, and the you know and the comfort that your salary is going to hit your account at the end of of every month. As you and I both know, when you have your own business, that's not always the case. You're often the last person yeah, not the first. So when you were deciding to do this, what? What do you think was the the most significant risk that you perceived?
Speaker 2:it's funny, you know. I go back to conversation with my wife. We were on holiday and I said to her like I think about doing this thing and we maybe we'll go for it. And then she was like it was a literally about a five minute conversation and she was like you, have you already made your mind up, so let's just do it. And then probably the biggest risk at that point was like oh, holy shit, what about school fees? What about all this upfront cost? Like there wasn't a big investment in it, it was, you know, let's go for it, let's roll the dice and see what we can do.
Speaker 2:But yeah, for me, the the big risk is what I feel every day is I feel like, you know, I'm the responsibility. I would say like, as we've grown, you know, I obviously have the responsibility of my family, but from a wider perspective, you know, there's 25 people that are relying on us being able to deliver and be a successful agency and some of those have got kids and families that depend on them. So I think the responsibility of it. But I guess that's the main motivator, to be honest, because if you, you know, I always say like I'm stressing about December or I'm stressing about November or something coming up.
Speaker 2:You know, I always say like I'm stressing about December or I'm stressing about November or something coming up, but I always kind of say to myself like, but if I don't go in today and do these three meetings and win this or deliver that, it doesn't really matter. You know, go one step at a time and and do it. But yeah, it's uh. I would tell you it is intense, you would know, and it's relentless. Relentless, like the market here is. Relentless because you're always on, like I've took my watch off for this. My wife makes me have no watch days on the weekends, which is uh, which is funny as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know that. But yeah, not not being connected is embarrassingly a stress to not, but I guess it's, it's part of the fun, like we talked about, you know, just before we started about maybe going back to england or something. But I would never survive because the chaos of the middle east is what I live for. Like, I come in every day and it's just every day is different. The energy that the team have got and you know, the excitement that we've got for stuff coming up in q4 is is what keeps me going. I think yeah for sure it's interesting.
Speaker 1:You say that I, one of my partners in, in the other business that I have warehouse for, which is the event venue, we used to work in asia together and again, you know we've laughed about this many times that we said that he and I are sort of two peas in a pod, in the sense that we, we, you know you move to markets like that and there's a lot of gray area, yeah, whereas in the uk and the us and more established markets, there's a lot of gray area, yeah, whereas in the UK and the US and more established markets, there's less gray area. The rules are the rules. It's red tape, you know, in places in, certainly in Southeast Asia and to here to a certain extent, although it has leveled off a bit over the last 10 to 15 years but there's a gray area, you know, and some people thrive in that gray area. Some people like playing in that gray area. I know, I do, I know I do.
Speaker 1:It doesn't bother me, it excites me, just that opportunity. You seem to be the same. I will ask you this, though as a business owner, do you find it lonely?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes in a short answer would be Look, I've started working with. I'm very blessed that my father-in-law had some very high profile jobs across the event industry advertising and I've recently started kind of working with him in kind of a mentorship role. Because you know, I'm very honest, you know all the time for good or for bad, and I feel that often, day in, day out, I'm still figuring it out like I do not know. You know necessarily what I'm doing at times and I think this is part of the fun and the ride. But I would now I'm kind of like five or six sessions in with him and you know there's no real agenda to it, but he just sort sort of will unpick things from my brain and then make me open up and think, oh okay, yeah, yeah, that's definitely a good way to approach it. But it's that sounding board to be able to just bounce ideas Like we've.
Speaker 2:One of the challenges with growing really fast is having structure. We've definitely got good structure in place now where I've got some key people in in leadership positions that I can bounce ideas off. But you know, ultimately I guess the truth is at three o'clock in the morning when I'm thinking about payroll, the buck stops with you, stops with me. Yeah, literally so, but yeah, no, I think that's one thing I'm learning is the importance of sharing it. You know, like tyler is a good friend of mine, we would chat about a lot of things that we have in common and share, because, yeah, otherwise it becomes quite stressful, and uh, and relentless is a word I keep using, but that's how I feel it is and, like you said, the honesty that comes through.
Speaker 1:I think you know again. You stressed at the very beginning that you've only been two years into this business. How do you stave off the imposter syndrome? I embrace it, I think.
Speaker 2:Because you do think of them. But then I definitely think and have that often at times. But then I do look around and I do check what we've done and I do think we've done stuff with BMW and stuff with Bentley and New Balance and I just think there should be an element where we feel super proud of what we've achieved in the in the two years of chaos. But, yeah, I also feel that the approach to just remain humble and not, you know, ever get too big for your boobs this is around the staying around the number that we are and learning the no's and all of these things which I'm kind of getting to now but I feel like, uh, yeah, that's that's important. But yeah, days I do come in and go what are we doing?
Speaker 1:have you reached a turning point yet in the business where you think, okay, I'm comfortable with this. We, you know, both from a obviously from a financial standpoint, yeah, but just from a personal standpoint as well where you can, you know, like you said, take the time to look back at what you've delivered and gone. You know what we did good there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important. I think it's so important to celebrate the wins, because not everyone gets to come and see the live event. It's so important that the team all get that buzz of, oh my God, we achieved this, we did this and we all played a part in it. Yeah, definitely. But then you know, as the nature of the business it's, you know, bang on to the next, on to the next, on to the next and, to be honest, like I said, I love it.
Speaker 2:I do love that part of it and the competitive nature of it like I'm, you know, obviously played a lot of sport growing up and whatever, so it's uh. That competitive nature of knowing who we're competing against and how they are leading agencies, some of them are top top and even to be at the table on occasion is awesome for us, especially in the time that we've been doing this. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Now, a key, very important aspect of any experiential activity is how to measure success, isn't it? How do you guys do that? I mean, what KPIs do you set up with the client pre-activity, by which you're going to measure whether or not that the event's been successful or not?
Speaker 2:yeah, good question. Um, look, I think data plays much more of a role in it nowadays, right, um? And we? For me, I always feel that we, when we work closely with pr or social, it's a lot easier to integrate like a almost like a holistic, holistic outcome of to be able to go back to the client with something tangible. But, yeah, for me I would say it's, it's making sure that, from our perspective, the experiences is is obviously the key. But shit, answer this. Sorry, I need to go back. Yeah, it's a hard question that it is, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1:it is. How do you measure the KPIs?
Speaker 1:yeah, because what you know it's very varied, because the KPIs are like but I think that's all, because it's so difficult, I think you know, for me, it's even more important to establish how you measure success in the first place. So, for example, I'll give you an example from the podcast business. For example, we specialize in producing branded podcasts for a client, you know, and one of the first things I mean I have a client at the moment, a cybersecurity client. They're based out of Singapore, and one of the things we said right at the very beginning was you know, what do you want to achieve from this podcast?
Speaker 1:Please don't tell me you want to be the next Joe Rogan, because if you do, I can't help you, but if you tell me that you want to reach 20% of, you know, the cybersecurity industry in APAC. I can help you with that Right, so I think think it. You know it's very important to set, set the stall out and then that way nobody is disappointed. Yeah, so, and I appreciate. Yeah, it's a very difficult yeah isn't it with with experiential, because so much of it is. That are those intangible moments it's that you know. It's that touchy-feely element.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also, you don't necessarily get the. You don't get oversight of a lot of those intangible moments. Right, you know you go to an event or you go to a concert or wherever you go to, you take away a memory with your wife or your girlfriend or whatever. The brand doesn't necessarily know that. It's just becomes part of, uh, part of their experience.
Speaker 1:So how important is moving product?
Speaker 2:as a KPI. Yeah, Look.
Speaker 2:I think, it's important, but I think if it's a focus, if you are just focused on commercials, then I think you've missed the mark, because you would build brand loyalty, you would build brand affinity through experiences, through experiential, and a consequence of that would be the, the product purchase, whatever that would be. For me, that's the. The important part is understanding the, the journey to the sale, rather than concentrating on the commercials, because that is often a kpi that we have is, you know, so it's x amount of dirham sold or x amount of test drives or x amount of this, but for us, it's about understanding how you get that person in the car is the important part.
Speaker 1:And following on from that, then I mean, obviously a key part of what you do is people in person attending whatever it is that you're organizing. But then how important is it for that experience then to have a life after the actual day, or or days, of the activity itself? How many, how many of your briefs have that in encompassed?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, look, I think it's. I think a few of them would definitely, because the longevity of it would would would need to linger, um, live on. Sorry, from our perspective is more about delivering in the moment. That's the key for us is we would deliver in the moment and then everything else would be a consequence of it. Post.
Speaker 2:I feel that's not really are hugely included within our briefs that we get. It would be, unless it's like a retained client that you're working with regularly. But for us it's about nailing that moment, making sure the consumer gets that experience. For us, it's about nailing that moment making sure the consumer gets that experience. And then you know, like I said before, the loyalty, the affinity then comes from that moment and with that comes the sales and the various different bits with the brand?
Speaker 1:Are you finding there's any industries in particular that you're working with and working across that have much more of an affinity towards the experiential space rather than others?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would say retail definitely is, because there's a lot of. For me, there's a focus around, you know, yes, getting people to the stores or getting people to. You know the stands, but then engaging whilst they're there, not just being about the commercials.
Speaker 2:Uh, automotive, more and more is around, you know, not looking at it as an isolated launch event, looking at it as a, as more of a, an experience over a period of time, um, and, to be honest, I think most most of the stuff that we work in is is leaning more towards that.
Speaker 1:If I'm honest, yeah, looking ahead where do you think the future of experiential marketing and brand experiences is going? Where do you think it's heading?
Speaker 2:Look, I think people first is where it will head, in my opinion. I don't think it's that. There were definitely a lot more data and analytics that come into it. We will find ways, or are finding ways, to measure the success of these experiences. Experiences, uh, but for me it will always or I hope it is always around um human engagement, um giving people that moment, giving people that you know, bite-sized piece of content that they then want to share family or on socials. Um, for me, that's uh, that's where I think it will continue to go into and um and evolve, yeah and a couple of more questions just before we we wrap up.
Speaker 1:Um, if you were advising a young entrepreneur starting out an agency today, what's, what's some of the advice you'd give? Don't do it.
Speaker 2:No, I dunno. Um, what would advice would I give? Look, I think that for me I would go back to it's hard, hard work and a good, positive attitude to hard work, grit, determination. You know, for me it was, you know, understanding why I'm doing this if I go back to my kids and my wife, and then that is your driver for it. So you've got to keep going and keep moving forward. Um, but yeah, other than that, and I actually feel like the, the new generation, maybe get a bit of a bad rap at the minute, to be honest, I think we've got some that work so hard.
Speaker 1:So it's, yeah, I think for me often is you know, don't be afraid to fail. Yeah, you know. I mean, I know over the years I've come up with 101 excuses not to do things. Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's just because I've been afraid of failure things. Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's just because I've been afraid of failure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but uh, but I think, you know, I've managed to temper that over the years, you know, certainly, even if I go back right to when I I moved away from the uk to to hong kong, you know I was. I went there for six weeks and uh, yeah, and that was it. And the biggest question I had at the end of that was should I stay in hong kong or should I go back to the UK? And then, of course, in there there's a fear of failure and obviously what stopped me was just you know well, I don't ever want to say what, if, but it's a very strong emotion that fear of failure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think also, one other thing that I definitely try to do day to day is, you know, and this goes back to football would be keep it simple, like I often think that the industry here gets so over complicated with it, whatever it, whatever reasons, or you know things that come in and you know outside factors that would play, but I always just think the simple thread of what you're trying to achieve, always understand the start and the finish, and keeping it simple is so important for us.
Speaker 1:I think and penultimately, I mean I've asked every guest this I'm a big music fan. I use music for all kinds of things, mostly just to relax at the end of a stressful week or a stressful day. I can imagine you must be a music fan as well. Yep, what's on your playlist at the moment?
Speaker 2:oh my god, that's a question eh, oh, my spotify no judgment by my spotify playlist might be the most random it. It would go from Backstreet Boys all the way to Biggie and everything in between, if I'm honest. But in the car I don't have the radio on. I don't have anything on in the car when I'm driving. I do probably quite a lot of thinking when I'm in the car because you're at work and it's hectic.
Speaker 1:You walk through the interruptions.
Speaker 2:The kids come and they need your attention. So when I'm in the car it's a little bit of peace. So yeah, but yeah, I don't know the guys are going to be laughing here about. Yeah, but backstreet boys to biggie would be a fair and everything in between brilliant and finally, adam, what's next for you and enigma?
Speaker 1:Well, tomorrow we're going to. Riyadh.
Speaker 2:We've got a Wednesday season two, part two launch with Netflix next week in Riyadh, which is super exciting. Like I said, q4 is busy, but beyond that, for me now it's stability is the most important thing now, like building the brand. You know, I guess I think we've probably come up a little bit under the radar and many people wouldn't have heard of us, which I'm cool with and okay with. But for me now it's okay, cool, we've got here, we've done a really good job. Now let's get some stability, you know, get the roots down, make sure that what we're delivering is ultimately best in class and just keep that consistency going. That's probably what next ask me on, uh, tuesday or wednesday next week when I'm in riyadh I, I don't know, eh well, adam, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining me on the podcast. Thank you very much. Event news dxp is brought to you by Warehouse 4, probably Dubai's best independent event venue, and Minus 45 DB, the team transforming noisy event spaces into slick, sound-reduced environments. The podcast was presented by myself, ian Carlos, the studio engineer and editor was Roy DeMonte, the executive producer was myself and Joe Morrison, and this podcast was produced by W4 Podcast Studio Dubai, and if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. We'll see you next time.