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EventNewsDXB - Dan Bolton: Candid Reflections on Surviving Adversity

• W4 Podcast Studio • Season 1 • Episode 4

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EventNewsDXB Ep.4 - Dan Bolton: Candid Reflections on Surviving Adversity

Supported by Warehouse Four - Dubai's best independent event venue.

Join host Ian Carless and guest Dan Bolton as they explore Dan's transformative journey in Dubai's dynamic event industry, showcasing his resilience through challenges and setbacks.

From his humble beginnings as a circus performer, Dan discusses the realities of scaling an event business, including having to rebuild from scratch after a disastrous project in Qatar left his once thriving business in ruins.

Through candid reflections, the conversation reveals vital lessons on business management, the emotional interplay of friendships in professional settings and provides a candid look at the resilience needed to thrive in Dubai's fast-paced event scene.

Podcast Rundown
• Dan's transition from circus performer to event producer  
• The risks and challenges of rapid business growth  
• Lessons learned from a major project failure  
• The emotional impact of financial difficulties on personal relationships  
• Insights into the shifting landscape of the event industry  
• Future aspirations and the importance of resilience in business

Production Credits:

Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & W4 Podcast Studio

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Ian Carless:

Welcome to Event News DXB. Before we begin, I've got a quick favour to ask. There's one simple way that you can support our show, and that's by hitting that follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening to the show on right now. It really does make a huge difference in helping us get the show out there to as many people as possible, so please give us a hand and click that button right now. Thanks a bunch. Thanks a bunch.

Ian Carless:

You're listening to the Event News DXB podcast. Your behind-the-scenes look into the world of events in Dubai, the UAE and the MENA region. I'm Ian Carlos and each week I'll bring you the latest news, industry trends and insider stories shaping one of the world's most dynamic event markets. From professional insights to Dubai's most inspiring success stories, we've got everything you need to stay ahead in the ever-evolving event industry. So, whether you're an event planner, a brand manager or just someone who's passionate about the power of events, you're in the right place.

Ian Carless:

This week, we're talking to one of the most vocal members of the Dubai event industry, dan Bolton. After starting out life as a circus artist, including a stint as a fire breather, he quickly recast himself in the role of event producer. A move to Dubai saw him cut his teeth with the leading model in event agency before forming his own company, dan Bolton Creative Management Agency. Following a whirlwind period of huge growth, 2023 was, sadly, the year that things came to an abrupt halt, leaving Dan having to start again from scratch. Dan, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.

Dan Bolton:

You're actually no stranger to podcasts, are you? You and Lily have one, don't you? Well, we, we've got one, which is a little bit on pause right now, which maybe we'll talk about, okay, um, but I'm having like a real bad sense of deja vu, like it's like life has just come full circle in so many ways, because we started doing our podcast during covid we do, we did, you were helping us put it all together and there was nothing else for us to do.

Ian Carless:

We're all a little bit bit bored. Yeah, exactly, I think you and I were like everybody else in the event industry, weren't we? We were all twiddling our thumbs for 18 months.

Dan Bolton:

Scrambling, trying to figure out how to survive. Yeah, but I'm loving the new set, thank you. It has like the nostalgia of the old one, with a bit more space and a few more decorative items.

Ian Carless:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, you know, I think we decided to lean into it a bit more in 2025.

Dan Bolton:

I like it, but yes, I'm no stranger to podcasts. I'm feeling a bit rusty. It's been a while.

Ian Carless:

I shouldn't worry about it. But okay, let's rewind a little bit. How did you get into events and how did you end up in Dubai? I know at one point you were a fire eater, yeah that's for sure.

Dan Bolton:

So how did I get into events? So it's a very long story. The short version is I had friends that were professional dancers. I looked at them and was like wow, I think like this is amazing. Yeah, I'd also just come back from a trip to Australia. Yeah, I went to. I was a spectator for the opening ceremony at the Sydney Olympics and I was like damn, I was like this is amazing, like you know, like just the whole spectacle of everything. So so I came back to the UK, I joined a circus school. I became a circus performer Still walk a fire breather, clown, pretty much. You know. Stick me in a costume. I'll be that idiot to do whatever the fire breathing. I'm still struggling with with my asthma right now.

Dan Bolton:

Most people just do the fire breathing with a couple of tequilas in the bar I mean, I've done that, I tried that before, like I've set myself on fire and so, yeah, and then, of course, then your, your parents, go like what the hell are you doing with your life? That was not what we planned for you. But then I started to book talent, manage talent. I grew within the agency that I was with at the time, did all the business development you know. I was really successful, did some incredible projects, and then an opportunity happened where my partner at the time was like we're moving to Dubai and I was like maybe, maybe, not Made the decision to At that time.

Dan Bolton:

Dubai was very different. We're talking like 2007. So it's not the city we have now. It's obviously the foundations of where we are today. But I was expecting this whole like Vegas, without the gambling, you know, like this whole you know big industry of events and entertainment, and it was fairly primitive back then. It wasn't kind of like where we are today, where we've had these mega events like the Expo, et cetera, or the World Cup over in Qatar. So it was kind of like from the grassroots in many ways. You step off that plane and you're like I'm here and it's like, oh, there's a lot of stuff to be done, but it's like, oh, there's a lot of stuff to be done, but um, it's been great building.

Ian Carless:

Now you cut your teeth, am I right with with bareface?

Dan Bolton:

you were originally yeah, that's a blast for the past. Um, yeah, so I remember talking to them whilst I was in the uk and they were like as soon as you land, come see us, because we're getting more requests for entertainment. We don't have anybody. They're a model agency landed. Went to see them, to see them. They're like we need you tomorrow. So I literally jumped into a job immediately, which was very fortunate, and I had a great time with them. It was eight years of fashion excess party models like amazing, amazing, that's a good stint, isn't it?

Ian Carless:

Eight years, eight years. I was with them, yeah, yeah, and I'm guessing, like many people who work for companies, at some point you kind of thought, okay, the grass might be a little bit greener on the other side, maybe it's time to start something of my own. Yeah, which you did. Yeah.

Dan Bolton:

I did actually, yeah, so I left them. I want to say 2015,. Thereabouts, yeah, as I mentioned, I think I'd resigned 15 times the company. At the time their company, not mine was growing significantly. They'd had a whole merger, restructure and the opportunities were incredible and it just felt prohibitive. And it gets to a point where you're like you know what, I'm not enjoying it anymore.

Ian Carless:

How was the transition then? How difficult was it for you to leave the safety net of working for somebody full-time and that regular paycheck and then setting up your own business?

Dan Bolton:

It't challenging in terms of clients. I was very fortunate I didn't steal clients, but clients came with me so I had a business pretty much immediately. I think as a business owner you actually have less freedoms than being an employee, because with an employee there's a certain level of safety. You're protected from some of the kind of serious responsibility. Obviously you've got KPIs or you've got your job or whatever, but you're protected from a lot of that because that's the owner's problem. When you become the owner it's all your problem and I've learned that Definitely definitely Now fast forward to 2024 and moving into 2025.

Ian Carless:

I think the issues that you've had over the last sort of 12 to 18 months are very well documented by your own volition, so maybe you can speak to us a little bit like that. I mean, obviously, I think from many people looking from the outside, you grew a tremendous pace, and that in itself brings its own set of difficulties. How do you scale a business so quickly, and especially in a market like Dubai, which is very transient, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So talk to us about your most recent journey.

Dan Bolton:

Well, clearly you don't scale it the way I was scaling it because that didn't work out and I'm laughing about it now.

Dan Bolton:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it and it's like I'm not laughing because it's funny, because, trust me, it's not being, it's more of a case of a coping mechanism, because it's been tough, like really tough. Yeah, so we grew exponentially, which is incredible, and I have to recognize my own efforts in that. I have massive self-doubt, imposter syndrome. We've talked about it on podcasts previously, yeah, but the fact is, you know, we deliver good work essentially, is it the best? You know? Can we do better? Of course we can, but we delivered incredible projects and we were continuously growing at a rate which was bonkers in so many ways.

Dan Bolton:

It was just adding layers and layers of complexity on top of everything and then comes risk. So, yes, we just couldn't keep up with the pace and I was kind of, when I look at it, kind of like what's it called introspectively, retrospectively, there we go and I was like the coffee was strong and you, you really start to analyze you like what went wrong? And, realistically, we didn't have the solid foundation at the beginning and it couldn't keep up with that pace and there wasn't the planning for what happens when something goes wrong. Because we're growing, we've got amazing projects like what, what could go wrong. There was a level of naivety or just inexperience, if I'm honest, from myself and others what to do for a rainy day, because this is dubai, we don't have rainy days. You know it's everything, is this, you know, land of opportunity, whereas the reality is like something bad happens. You get bit on the ass and then you're like, okay, that wasn't what I was thinking. How do I fix?

Ian Carless:

it and that is the reality, isn't it? I mean, we can all look at instagram and think it's oh, it's sunny every day and the streets are paved with gold, but the end of the day, we have the same. You know, we work in the same environment as everybody else does pretty much around the world. We have the same. We face many of the same issues, many of the same problems. Things came to a head for you, didn't they? I don't know how much detail you want to go into, perhaps not as much, but you know you certainly had one project that really tripped you up.

Dan Bolton:

Do you know what, when I look back and it's like a perfect storm and it could have gone either way, like and this is the thing it's like you know, in business, like we, we're successful because we make risks, we make calculated risks. None of it's kind of done flippantly. I don't think I really understood the ramifications of what if it would go wrong, but there was nothing to say that it would go wrong up until that point. So where are we? We're in, like summer 2023. Yeah, my god, nearly two years ago now, um, and we just pitched for a big project Qatar huge. It's like the biggest project we've ever done.

Dan Bolton:

And, like every project, there's conversation that happens in the background. You know this is what the client's looking for. It was very much like. You know this is yours to lose, essentially because we'd gone down the pitching process, we'd had the conversations, et cetera. We invested so much money into that pitch. We're talking like hundreds of thousands of dirhams because there's a very the high likelihood of a very positive outcome at the end of it. So this is summer and for most people that know the region, you know your cashflow starts to dry up very quickly from Ramadan onwards and cash flow is a perennial problem for everyone, isn't it I?

Dan Bolton:

mean it's hard here because people pay late. I mean I'm responsible for that currently, right now, which is obviously making some people's lives hell. So, yeah, so we were kind of like juggling. So you've got the yes, we have this project which was contracted. We were awarded and won it a little bit further down the line. Yeah, so we started to invest in resource, infrastructure, training, additional people, like all of the things we needed to deliver that project.

Dan Bolton:

The project is awarded really late. We had six months of programming to complete in literally six weeks. So, like we've got like a contract, we're moving. We relocated people to Qatar. Like we're throwing the kitchen sink, like everything, because this is the biggest project we've ever won and we're talking like 100 million dirhams worth of business. Yeah, it's like I'm throwing everything at it. Everything's moving and, of course, there's hiccups. You know there's delays on contracts. There's delays on, you know, procurement awarding. Whatever we go through this, oliver, especially in this region, and a lot of it. You just keep moving further forward, because time is of the essence. You got six weeks here. So anyway, we threw everything at it.

Dan Bolton:

Long story short, we were the ones leading much of this project with our local partner in qatar. And then all of a sudden it was like local partner in qatar got very much louder in the conversation because they were very silent before right and once we'd won it, and then very much it was like oh, it's a whole new team of people, this is new direction, this is a new contract agreement. The budget you had has been halved, like all of these conversations, and we're like what the hell just happened? Like it came kind of out of nowhere and essentially we got pushed out.

Dan Bolton:

The project. Yeah, we'd invested all this money. We, we'd invested everything. We took our eye off the ball for the rest of Q4 because I've got a hundred million in a project. I can't do anything else. Yeah, we were essentially pushed out. I got nothing, not one single dirham. So then all of a sudden you're like well, where's my pipeline, where's my cash flow? And you know, a lot of people have said, oh well, you were kind of foolish to do that. I'm like, well, if you speak to anyone in business, you know we had contracts again, we had lawyers, like people were looking at things. Yeah, um, I think people take calculated risk because the the flip side of that risk, it went horribly wrong. On the flip side of it, it could have gone incredibly well, yeah, and that would have catapulted us down to a different level. So, yeah, there's a level of naivety, I think, and just yeah, learning and the restructuring.

Ian Carless:

I mean that's clearly a painful process and there's two parts to this. It's very painful. Yeah, there's two parts to this. How have you managed that process? And then, secondly, you've been very vocal about the whole transition and the whole process. I mean, clearly there's been some painful decisions oh geez, painful decision from day one.

Dan Bolton:

I think in hindsight again, wonderful thing. I'm definitely gonna write a book on it one day. It's been tough, like really tough, because the challenge I had in the first place is I filled my business full of friends, so these are people which are like I've known for 20 years and everything else, and then all of a sudden that dynamic shifts because we're talking about money, we're talking about jobs, responsibility, families, people's medical bills, you know people's personal problems, like all of the above. So we had to make some difficult decisions. In the beginning we didn't lay anybody off, it was a conversation.

Dan Bolton:

If people wanted to leave, there was delays in payments and salaries, et cetera. Then it just kind of snowballed, if I'm completely honest, because that's where kind of like resentment, fear, like all of these human emotions set in. So then people have their own challenges to deal with, which then means that we all behave differently. So people that I thought were going to stick around didn't stick around. People I actually thought were going to leave. I've actually stayed and it just shifted everything, everything, everything. But the problem from the beginning was I was always trying to chase, I was trying to keep up. Yeah, and when people say it feels like drowning, like that's exactly what it feels like. Yeah, literally, because you're just like what's happening today and it was one thing after another.

Ian Carless:

Yeah, and that's been the biggest learning I've had other guests on who've also, you know, myself included I've had businesses fail in other markets. I mean dubai isn't very forgiving when it comes to being able to fail, is it? Do you think you would be able to manage the process differently if you were in a different environment, another country, for example? Because I mean, obviously, in other markets, you know, bankruptcy is an option. Yeah, I know that there are. It's an option here. Yeah, I was gonna say I think there is an option here now.

Dan Bolton:

Isn't there a lot of people recommended I do it for me? I don't know if this is ego, I'm not sure. Yeah, maybe one day I'll figure it out. Look, I made it very clear like I owe people money, things are delayed and stuff like that. I don't want to go down that route because then legally I don't have any responsibility to pay people back, correct? I think I come from a very working class background in North Manchester. It's like, if you know, like my parents would not allow me to do that. However, what I will say is, like you said, unforgiving, fuck man. The hate has been brutal, brutal.

Dan Bolton:

This is the stuff that people don't necessarily see. All of the time, like some of the conversation you have with people, you're just like wow, that's very different from what I was expecting and I get, and I understand why. It just starts to get to a point where you go this is just not worth it anymore. Like on a personal capacity, fine, but then also for the people around you that it affects. You know, like your team members, the new people that have come into our company, their families, my family, like so many different things. You know, even the people which are kind of peripheral of this. You just get to a point where you're just like you know like bankruptcy would be the easy option yeah because then you can just like whatever you do, whatever you need to do, yeah.

Dan Bolton:

However, like I don't want to go down that route.

Ian Carless:

Yeah. Do you think that amount of vitriol, do you think that contributed to your decision to be very vocal about the transition and the subsequent aftermath? I mean, you have been very, very, very open on LinkedIn, for example, of course, A lot of people say this to me.

Dan Bolton:

I mean I had to be for many reasons. Reasons. I mean I've been blackmailed. That was one of them. I was getting whatsapp messages from people saying we're going to start a social media campaign and tell people that you're a scumbag and that you're scamming everybody. And then you, like you, sit there and think, right, okay, like am I a scumbag? I mean, arguably, you know, people can have an opinion on that, fine, whatever. Then you go like, did I scam people?

Dan Bolton:

And these lots of question choices, and you question yourself and you question the business, and you question yourself and you question ability and you question morals and you question, question, question everything and, to be honest, like you don't know what, because so many people say stuff, but then it just comes down to it. It's like I never, I never went out deliberately to do anything, like something happened. And on the flip side of this, as we all know, the other option would be to simply disappear and leave, which many people have done in the decades before us. And when it all kicked off, I remember people telling me you should just do a runner, yeah. And I was like, how am I gonna do a runner, like I've lived in dubai for 18 years. Yeah, my relationships are here, my friendships are here, everything's here. So, like what am I running from?

Ian Carless:

and then you really are burning the bridges because there's no coming back then there's no coming back.

Dan Bolton:

Yeah, for sure, and I'm gonna do that like this will take time, it'll be very painful, but it will resolve itself eventually through my hard work and through other people's hard work. But yeah, the the bitch show was brutal, brutal, brutal. And then my my kind of comeback to that was after lots of therapy and discussions and breakdowns and everything else. It was like I'm actually not a scumbag, like shit's happened. I really wish it didn't. I apologize for that. All I can do is make it better, literally so. Does that make me a scumbag to people now? Yes, will that make me a scumbag in the future? No, will people probably call me up and be like, hey, can I do a job for you in the future? Yes, you will. Like you know, like this is just a cycle which is a very painful one, but I will fix it and then we'll move on. Relationships will get fixed, if they need to be fixed, and then we'll move into a different future what do you think we're?

Ian Carless:

maybe let's, let's pick three. What do you think were your three key learnings from the whole process? Holy?

Dan Bolton:

wow, wow, that's a good question, I mean, I'll give you one Cashflow, cashflow, my cashflow.

Dan Bolton:

like king. I work in a creative world, so for us it's like money's a prohibitor to creativity. It's like we want to do things and I had a team of people around me that were responsible for money. We're a business. We had 85 people for money. We're a business. We had 85 people. There was a structure, a board, there was all of these components.

Dan Bolton:

I think the learning the second part then to cash flow is like you've got all of these people with responsibility, who've got ownership and accountability for certain things, and you, as a business owner, see a top level. You don't always see the detail. The reality is the book stops with you and then, when it all goes horribly wrong, those people quickly disappear. That was the second biggest learning, because I remember one day looking around and being like shit, you've all gone. And I was like so who's going to pick up these pieces? And I was like, well, clearly me. And it was really interesting that it was from the senior team who went the quickest right. And you literally look and be like, oh, wow, so that's how it's going down you, you mentioned you know, hiring, hiring friends, and look, listen a lot of my third one a lot of friends yeah, a lot of us do that though, don't we?

Ian Carless:

because we like to think that, you know, I mean, obviously you're not going to hire friend friends that, uh, that can't do the job. Yeah, but with friends, you would hope, comes a certain level of trust, and that makes it easy, easier in some cases for them to, for them to be a good hire, but in, as you found out in retrospect, yeah, perhaps that's probably not the best route no, hiring, friends, is definitely not the right route.

Dan Bolton:

Also, hiring out of desperation is not the right route, so hiring would out of desperation is not the right route, so hiring would be my number three. In general, business was growing so quickly, claire, I actually hated my own business like hated it really and this is something which was in discussion in 2022. I was going through therapy, I was talking to people and I had trust issues. I wasn't enjoying it. I had massive bouts of like crippling anxiety that I kept hidden from so many people, because in many ways, it actually made me function, like I'm a high functioning, I have high functioning anxiety, and that was what was pushing me further forward, but it was also pushing me in a way that, again, was unsustainable. I wasn't looking after my health. I wasn't looking after my mental health at all, and then I was just hiring to make a problem disappear without actually fixing the problem and it's like that.

Dan Bolton:

What's the anecdote where you can put like band-aids on a sinking ship kind of thing? It's like it's going to sink eventually. Yeah, and I think that's what I was doing. I was just sticking plasters everywhere and those plasters, in fairness, if that's the right word to use were the people closest to me, friends. So it's like, oh, I need this help, I need this help. I need, I need, I need without actually looking and being like who's the best person for the job, protect that kind of I don't know employee employer relationship. Do I actually need these people? Is there a better way of doing it, etc. Etc. Which is where we get to now, which is more positive. We've gone through the process of restructuring everything, everything, everything. And then I have a team of 10 people doing better work than a team of 85 people, and that's no disrespect to the people that were there previously. But the foundation is the structure, my management, everything was not right, so now it's had to flip itself to get to a place where it's actually. This is the business.

Ian Carless:

I want well, I think you know just to put a positive spin on things. I think if you asked any successful entrepreneur, they would have had failures past, multiple and, and, more importantly, that's where you learn the most yes, yeah, I've had this conversation with a few people in different industries because it's tough, no one likes to be a failure.

Dan Bolton:

Your ego kicks in and, especially in this day and age, like you, nobody could be a failure because everything's so amazing on social media and I had a couple of really interesting conversations and they told me stories and I was like shit. I was like our stories are like parallel in so many different ways and they've gone on to be incredibly successful. Yeah, definitely I have learned the most, which, in many ways, I wish I didn't have to do that, but I think in a year's time, two years time, when you look back you'll be like that was actually happened.

Ian Carless:

For a reason, that was an incredible period of time of learning moving on, I think if you had to write a report card for where the industry's at right now, where would it be?

Dan Bolton:

I don't know, I do. I was actually thinking about this. It's interesting. That's like questioning, because I was thinking about it over the last few days.

Dan Bolton:

Obviously my perception of the industry is a little bit jaded right now, so I can only speak for myself and I don't know if it's clouded by the judgment of the last few years and that process.

Dan Bolton:

I think the industry is very messy, like really messy, and I'm just thinking because you know, we talked previously like a lot of the big projects are not necessarily happening anymore. I mean, there are big projects still, but it's just very different. Saudi is very competitive, so obviously a lot of stuff is happening in Saudi. A lot of people have gone to Saudi. A lot of stuff is happening there. But if we're talking from a UAE perspective, a lot of it, you know, stuff driven by procurement, that kind of race to the bottom, the the price there's not necessarily for the people that we often deal with, that understanding of creative and the kind of the cost associated to creative yeah, it's interesting you say that we were chatting to stephen wyland, yeah, you know, and his sort of comments on on the on a similar question, were that no, we're not at the same place where we were pre-covid, and a lot of that is to do with creativity.

Ian Carless:

a lot of that to that is to do with creativity. A lot of that is to do with budget. I mean, you touched on it. A lot of it is now procurement driven and budget driven and for many people, whilst we're doing, whilst they seem to be a lot smaller events, they're just cookie cutter. They're like we've got a launch, the CEO will come and speak and then everybody will go to the bar. But where's the story, where's the spectacle, the narrative? Come and speak and then everybody go to the bar?

Dan Bolton:

yeah, but where's the story, where's the? Where's the spectacle, the narrative, where's the narrative, which is, of course, what events are all about? Correct, but clients still want that. They just don't want it the way that it's actually deliverable in many, many ways, because we always get that, oh, tell us a narrative, you know, take us through the journey and then eventually you get to a point of like, well, I need some branded directional signage, I need a couple, couple of activations, a speaker on stage and some F&B, and you're like, okay, but that's not the story, that's not the narrative.

Ian Carless:

It's a vicious circle, though, isn't it? Because then, when you omit the narrative, you basically you're compromising the experience, and then people go away. They go to events, they come out of the event having not had such a good time as they could have, and then the clients, in turn, don't get the results that they're looking for, and therefore, when it comes around to perhaps doing it again, then they kind of think, oh well, I'll spend even less.

Dan Bolton:

I'm going to blame procurement, unfortunately, because that's my experience with them. It's like you know, if I can sit down with a client or the end decision maker, the person whose event it is, which you know, finally we get there, we do have those conversations with them, like you can really understand what is important to you, what are you trying to do, what do you want to try to achieve? What's the human connection, the emotional connection, the story, the narrative, what is your objective? By hosting this event? And you know, generally, it's like making people come out feeling proud, making them understand something more, making them more productive, something.

Dan Bolton:

There's something tangible that this event is supposed to deliver that doesn't have to be expensive, but it has to be expensive, but it has to be a conversation. And it has to be a conversation that is actually real and feasible, which means like, yes, you're going to have to pay for it, maybe not as much as we originally talked about, but there's going to be a meeting point in the middle. That meeting point just currently like it just doesn't happen because it's like, well, let's go with the cheapest option, but currently, like it just doesn't happen because it's like, oh well, let's go with the cheapest option, but the cheapest option is not delivering what you need and you're self-perpetuating this, just like you mentioned this is cycle of mediocrity.

Ian Carless:

Essentially, where do you see the industry moving in for the rest of the year, for the rest of 2025?

Dan Bolton:

oh, I'm not sure. Actually, that's a very good question. Um, I don't think I'm in the right position to answer it fully because I'm a little bit insular at the moment. I think, like I've got my blinkers on. I'm just trying to figure out myself and my business. I'll talk about my business.

Dan Bolton:

I think where we're going to be, you know, restructure, solidify, get it to where it should be, get it to where it needs to be, so then we can grow in the future and we'll grow differently. That's 100 for sure, I think. Then, if you look at that in terms of the wider industry probably something similar I'm hearing all sorts from different people about, you know, the need to restructure, change, evolve, pivot. You know all of those kind of words. Um, obviously you know people are thinking saudi, saudi, saudi. Eventually that will kind of go through a similar journey to what I guess the uae has gone through. So I think there's a lot of movement in the industry.

Dan Bolton:

What other stuff's happening? I mean, it's very difficult because you don't have again those big signature things. There's nothing in the calendar really. You know we don't have a COP28. We don't have an Expo. All of that has shifted to Saudi. So if you're looking kind of in the long term. Obviously people are excited about Expo 2030. People are excited about the Football World Cup rightly to again come to this region Incredible.

Ian Carless:

I don't want to touch on this too much, but how do you see Saudi evolving in terms of the event industry?

Dan Bolton:

I think the dream and the vision is amazing. You know, you look at it and it reminds me of the heyday of Dubai. You know, when I first came here in 2007 and you had the big kind of like dubai land universal, like all of these things are going to come. I think. Then look at where we are in 20 I need to say 2015, 2025, 10 years behind. You know, you've gone through that kind of what like 18 20 year journey and a lot of it never materialized, but other stuff did yeah. So I think the the vision of saudi will change, it will evolve, it will grow. The interesting thing about Saudi that I really really like is that it is predominantly Saudis it's not a heavily kind of international immigrant, expat, whatever you want to call them demographic that come here to do business. It's very, very Saudi, which then means different ways of doing business, different relationships. The fact that we don't speak Arabic will be a prohibitor in the future. Do you think that makes it more sustainable, I think it does as an industry.

Ian Carless:

but perhaps, just not perhaps on the scale that they're at now.

Dan Bolton:

Definitely on the scale that they're at now and it's a huge country.

Dan Bolton:

I think the fact that they've got, like you know, primarily most of their population is like, kind of like in that 35 year bracket or up to 35 age bracket, the possibility of the future, exciting. You know, they're young, they're hungry, they're kind of open-minded, they're evolving. The pace of evolution and change is happening so quick, but again it's like any, I want to say like a gold rush. You know you've got everybody from around the world which is now trying to take a piece of saudi. I think the reality is saudi's going to keep it for themselves and they're going to start really thinking about well, how do we protect this, how do we stop it being cannibalized by all of these internationals which are essentially coming to do business, to take the money out of the country? And I think you know, making sure that there's a level of knowledge sharing, transfer, you know, building of infrastructure, and I don't mean physical infrastructure, I mean creative infrastructure, tech infrastructure, like that type of thing. I think that's where it'll be very interesting, that's.

Ian Carless:

That's a really interesting perspective. Yeah, before we close, I know you're a music fan and we've been asking everybody this uh, my vinyl my vinyl collection has been growing over the last couple of years. What's on your playlist at the moment? What are you listening to my playlist.

Dan Bolton:

Wow, I'm gonna say something now which is a little bit weird, where you're just gonna be like oh my god, here we go, but like a load of like soothing meditation stuff, like literally like omchance is something okay, like so literally like I'll plug in my ipod ipod, is it even a thing these days? Sorry, you're dating yourself. My god, I nearly said what was the other one where you had like, was it an?

Ian Carless:

ipod, is it even a thing, these?

Dan Bolton:

days, sorry, wow, my god, I nearly said what was the other one where you had like was it an ipod.

Ian Carless:

You're gonna say walkman, my cassette.

Dan Bolton:

No, I'm like I've got this thing right now where I wake up at five o'clock in the morning, before the sun is like pitch black. I sit on the balcony with a coffee, I put in the music and I kind of like set my intentions for the day, like it's the thing to like sort my own mental health out and everything. But in terms of like actual artists wow, that's a good question like my playlist is eclectic, like it's all over the place, like, if I'm completely honest, like my partner's constantly playing the soundtrack from wicked. So I think I've got like ariana grande and like what was the alphabet I can't remember what she's called cynthia on like repeat, like literally. So defying gravity is my number one at the moment.

Ian Carless:

Yeah, and finally, looking ahead at 2025 what are you looking forward to?

Dan Bolton:

resolution, literally, um, I'm looking forward to being able to put certain things to bed, to move on, to continue to grow and be successful in a very different way, and I like the fact that you know we've been talking about sustainability. And sustainability is not just like plants and animals, like sustainability in terms of how. How do we continue to move forward in life? You know, from various different aspects, I think, taking everything that I've gone through, taking everything that I've put people through, learning from all of that and then moving to a different direction for the future, which would be it for me, ultimately peace, like I want, peace like I just want that kind of existence. I think isn't that what we all want? You know, you want to wake up in the morning, a little bit slower pace of life, no worries, no problems, excited, like that's for me, that's what 2025 is about, and then putting things to bed. Dad, thanks for joining me. Man really enjoyed it.

Ian Carless:

The coffee was strong, by the way, so it's like I've got straight in, like these subtitles for this one event. News dxb was presented by myself, ian carlos, the studio engineer and editor was roy de monte, the executive producer was myself and joe morrison, and this podcast is a co-production between warehouse 4 and w4 podcast studio dubai, and if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. See you next time.